Everyone knows by now the Knicks most recent offer in the Carmelo Anthony drama. Namely a combination of Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Eddy Curry's expiring contract and a 1st round draft pick (via a swap of Anthony Randolph to the Minesotta Timberwolves).
Although the Knicks give up significant pieces on their roster in that transaction, it is a deal for Anthony that many Knicks fans would be willing to accept. However, as with their dealings with the New Jersey Nets, the Denver Nuggets are trying to push the Knicks off the line they are currently towing. They are trying to get the Knicks to offer more. It is also possible that some within the Knicks organization sentimental for losing a godson may be willing to push the organization to acquiesce to the most recent Nuggets counter offer.
That Nuggets' counter offer was tweeted today by Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, via word from NBA TV. That counter offer being the following:
"NBA TV reporting that Nuggets want Fields & Mozgov in the deal instead of Gallinari. Thus far, as source said neither side will budge."
Alan Hahn of Newsday has also tweeted the same counter offer and appears to be ecstatic that Gallinari maybe saved at the sacrifice of Landry Fields and Timofey Mozgov. Hahn tweeted the following:
"If Knicks can somehow keep Gallinari in this deal, as NBAtv says DEN prefers Mozgov/Fields instead, that would be amazing."
So that's the Nuggets' counter offer. Let me be short and to the point regarding my opinion on that counter offer. I don't like it or care at all for it. To accede to that counter offer would hurt the Knicks in two key areas of need that both Mozgov and Fields address more than adequately.
One of those areas of need is that of size and length on the interior. Currently the Knicks are woefully thin at the 5 spot and even smaller at the 4 spot if you consider that Wilson Chandler, Shawn Williams, have played minutes at both those positions due to injuries to Ronny Turiaf and the reticence of Mike D'Antoni to sooner phase in Mozgov. Mozgov in the games since his return has proven that he can more than adequately man the center position and that his good motor and resilience (just look at his comeback game against the Clippers) are aspects he can build off as he develops polish in his game.
Gallinari does not provide the size and girth inside to help Stoudemire hold his own against the beefier frontlines in the Eastern Conference and NBA generally. He may be a lengthy 6'10" but he is a gawky 6'10" whose frame is still not filled out. Mozgov on the other hand is a bigger 7'1" and is also lean, yet stouter in the post than Gallinari. Mozgov's ability to provide Pick and Roll offense to the Knicks also helps to relieve Stoudemire when he heads to the bench.
The other area of need for the Knicks in any trade scenario for Anthony will be a need for players that enhance chemistry leading to fluid transitions in the event of Anthony's arrival at the Garden. Namely that of players who compliments the talents of ball dominant scorers. Players who can play off the ball and don't need it effectively to contribute to the outcome of the game. Landry Fields currently fills that role way more than effectively. To my knowledge the effectiveness of a Landry Fields is measured in the way that his off the ball scrappy play enhances team chemistry. Something that will be dearly needed should a shake up happen at the Garden. As a rookie, Fields leads the league's guards in rebounding, is amongst the league's most effective (accurate) three point shooters in the fourth quarter when those shots count most - clutch anyone?
Danillo Gallinari is a decent player who gives good effort. He has a pretty varied game that has extended beyond the arc to a slashing game where he effectively draws and converts fouls shot opportunities. However, despite his gawky length and a decent ability from beyond the arc, he does not the fill the needs that the combination of Landry Fields or Timofey Mozgov provide the Knicks. Gallo does help on the boards but is no where near as effective or productive from his wing position (Fields plays the 2, Gallo plays the 3) than Fields. He is not as effective without the ball on offense. As a matter of fact he needs touches to create free throw opportunities with his pump fake slashing game. Fields provides a more seamless transition than Gallinari.
Given the elements of the games that both Mozgov and Fields address over Gallinari, and given how important those elements will be in transitioning the team in the event of a shake up it would behoove the Knicks not to bite on that onerous Nuggets' counter offer!
okay O & B, the line is officially drawn and I am glad that you will remain in the loyal Knick fan fold. It's wait and see time. Now if Denver picks the Nets, Melo will call their bluff and force their hand to the Knicks. That's the script
Melo's priorities: 1) The money 2) Play for the Knicks 3) Win a championship. As such, he won't wait for free agency, because he risks losing tens of millions of dollars. And, he is willing to play for a depleted Knicks team. This is why he made the statement last week about being willing to sign the extension and play for Denver. That statement was calculated to spur the Knicks into offering more in the trade. Then, he gets priorities 1 and 2, at the expense of 3.
@Riordan_Stallworth You're correct Riordan. Priority 1 took priority over priority 3 and sort of weakened priority 2. But can I be mad at him for looking at the money he'd lose. As a working stiff I can't. The offer made by the Knicks is a tad to much with Felton going to Denver but it's not the house and Fields, Mozzy and Douglas along w/ Williams and Walker stay to round out the rotation. That is a semblance of the supporting cast they had once Chandler or Gallo hit the pine. You have to give to get. But then again a line has to be drawn. The line has been drawn. I'm glad it has. Now the Knicks need to toe that line and not back down. Melo can't be offended if the Knicks are giving the Nuggets a decent package of young wings a very solid scoring point in Felton and a draft pick from a losing team that is likely lottery bound. That is a fair offer. Time to stand firm and leave it in Denver's hands.
Let's go Knicks!
thanks for chiming in and stop by again. We do decent columns and game threads. Orange and Blue!
If all reports of Melo to New York are true, the Knicks, James Dolan, is getting fleeced. Carmelo Anthony is not worth three Knicks starters and a host othe party favors. Isiah better not take credit for this grand theft automatic until two years from now when the team has a point guard, a top flight rookie forward the equivalent of Fields or Chandler, and a servicable Center. Then they will be only two more years from a chip.
Denver promises to look as good as Houston did last year in dealing with the Knicks.
In this instance, Carmelo is also pimp slapping the Knicks into surrendering far more than they should. You can buy almost anything if you are willing to give up everything.
You know this deal has Dolan's palm print pressed right into the shitty middle. Walsh has made plenty of bad moves, but this would not be one of them. Dolan decides what's value by its current celebrity. Starbury, Scary-Larry (Brown), Lenny Wilt-kens and others all shined brightly before they came to the city of bright lights.
Isiah, drive slow homey. Don't move to fast to take credit for a disaster.
@Lives I couldn't agree more with you. You have to give to get but what's the cost. The thing with Denver is, you give a little they ask for alot more. When does it stop. I said my line is Mozzy and Fields bait and switch instead of Gallo. That's where I draw the line.
Whomever Melo told Dolan to keep in their meeting ...Dolan will.
Like it or not ..that is reality! I'm sure whatever goes down, Melo & Amare have approved!
Still think we're getting played, and very well too.As to covetiousness, the history of the game is about players being bought , sold, traded, etc.The difference is now the players have some control.Think about the Golden Knicks.Only Reed, Bradley and Frazier were home grown, and eventually Frazier was traded.DeBush, Monroe and "Fall Back Baby were from other places.This is the age we live in and the athletes that make big money understand this.I am not a huge Melo fan, but I see the possibilities.If a deal can be made that makes sense, that's cool.Donnie is the pro here,I can live with his business.I can't live with Fields and Mos going in a "Bait & Switch".But then I've been burned, so I've learned.For now, still LGK.And I won't be back in a week.
@Tman Count me in that one also if the Knicks whether its Ike, Zeke, Jimmy or Walsh give up more in the bait and switch!
Latest News on the "Melodrama!"
agree w the article 100% hands down...the center position (along w the pg) is probably the most important position in basketball...mozgov is starting to get it...dont know what he will ultimately become, but in his return to the lineup in the month of february he is averaging 7.3 pts,5.5 rebs, 1 blk in 22 min...also his pf have decreased considerably..
landry fields may not be the nba roy but he is def that guy for the knicks. no matter what his ceiling is (and im confident we havent seen it yet) hes the defensive backbone of this team...hes a hard worker (leading all guards in rebs) that cannot/should not be sacraficed to get this deal done.
i am also not a big fan of including felton in this deal...even if for chauncy, i know alot of people may disagree w me on that. to many fans its a no brainer, billups is a better pg, the question IMO is for how much longer? chauncy is 8 yrs older than ray. also alot of fans are probably figuring that we are gonna get chris paul anyhow... im not so sure of that however.....thats not to say that i dont want cp3, just dont know that its the best idea to go thru this whole roller-coaster ride again next season, chasing another teams player. at some point the knicks have to build from within. we have to worry about what we do have n not what someone else has.
@bigshon Yeah Shon
It's a lot to pay. I think the Knicks should hold firm and not give up more. Maybe counter offer w/ Chandler and Gallo, Curry's expiring and 2 first rounders and either Walker or Williams.
That is if Denver ask for more. If they do and don't like the counter offer walk away! Walk Away!
Good morning. You mean this saga is not over yet?
BTW, good stuff. Exciing times. Carmelo just may get his way. He really, really does not want to lose that $40 million though. That is very clear.
@Lives Melo divided between the chedder and location may or may not have divided Knicks mgt. Still beyond the latest Knicks offer no more should be given. Any more and the Knicks should walk away, regardless of who's running the ship.
Steady, I truly enjoyed the wordplay on your salty post!
I feel what O&B and everyone is saying, but I am pretty sure if Melo came to town under any circumstance that the "Knicks strike" might last a week at most. Now if I am wrong about this and making light of your pain, then I apologize in advance.
Fields and Mozgov are most certainly a better fit, but the question must be asked if something comparable can come back in a separate trade for Gallo. I don't know, just askin...
I absolutely love Fields, his rebounding, and his smarts, but also wonder what Fields' ceiling is as 4-year college players rarely improve too much in the pros (wasn't Channing Frye's best year his rookie year?) Just askin'... just bloguin...
@MODI MODI you're the man but IMHO a line has to be drawn. If you give an inch they take a mile. Knicks started w/ a low ball offer, Nuggets spread rumors of other trading partners and the Nets offer, Knicks made a serious and fair offer. Anymore and the Nuggets will demand more. At a certain point you have to stand fast and toe the line. Even prokhorov knew that, that's why he walked away last month. He only came back b/c the Nuggets begged him to do so.
I don't care who's running the negotiating joint, if the Knicks offer any more, I'll start following other teams. ta ta Knicks!
No more big postings for me.
Two tidbits from the interweb.
1) Nets and Melo met:
2) Denver writer opined on the meeting and believes the meeting was good for the Knicks b/c Melo was non committal with the Nets people:
Lat but not least a denver blogger and a national sports writer see the deal last offered by the Knicks (not the Nuggets' counter offer) as a good deal for both teams:
Steady men, settle down. How did you get to this point in the first place? Coveting OTP? Thou shall not covet OTP. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods. IT's an age old axiom. Love the ones you're with and remember where your love is at all times. And let the millionaires have their moment in the sun.
@Steady You want to see your team built from the ground up and in a world w/o the sort of undissuaded collusion (Boston and Minnesotta, LA and Memphis, and LeBron, Wade and Bosh) the league might have stayed in the two star/ one star plus supporting cast modell of the early 90s. That's no longer the case.
At the end of the day I might actually be prouder of Dolan, Walsh and co if they just step away from the bounty the Nuggets are trying to extort from the Knicks. I can watch Randy, Mozzy, Douglas, Chandler and Fields and Gallo grow alongside of Felton, STAT and T. But to maximize that development a new coach may be in order. Covitis is a deadly disease. You always knew. I just bloguinned about it tongue in cheek. Though this rollercoaster is far to much for me at this juncture.
Denver is being very greedy. This deal may have to wait for the 11th hour and Dolan should not add any more than what's on the table. If Denver continues to hold out for both Fields and Mozgov, in lieu of Gallo, then hang-up the phone and wait to get Melo for nothing or next to nothing in July. Denver can either keep him as a disgruntled player for the remainder of the season or peddle him for less than the what the Knicks are offering to another team (Houston --Detroit?) where he will also be a disgruntled player.
If the deal goes forward under the original exchange, perhaps the Knicks can buy back Chandler after July 1 for a substantial but affordable price. W.Thrill may come to like the Rocky mountain air, but having played and tasted life in the Big Apple, he may want to return and contribute to a championship run. I will indeed miss Chandler, but maybe not for long. LGK
@Post_up_Prince Post Up Me You and T know that a line should not be crossed. I wrote that ltr to Dolan for that very reason. There is a difference between a fair offer and a heist.
Me and T'Man are gone if this happens. Let's recannoiter at another blog and just learn to appreciate a well managed organization. Walsh should be playing poker but Dolan is showing the Nuggets Walsh's cards while D'Antoni is trying to hid Walsh' card.
Like I said "A HOUSE DIVIDED" I MAY NEVER BE A KNICKS FAN AGAIN IF THE KNICKS OVERPAY!"BELIEVE THAT . . .
These are some slick wannabee MFrs.I been wondering about this Gallo BS.Bottom line, they never wanted him anyway.We're being played bigtime.This has all just been a set-up to apply pressure to Dolan/IKe's nuts at the right time.They sucked D'Opelan in knowing he's depending on a desperate Zeke to set up his comeback.They manuevered Dolan to push Walsh so he's standing helpless on the outside wringing his hands.Take a deep breath and step away from the table Jimmy.Hand the keys back to Donnie and stonewall these mothers.Sure we want Melo, but Denver is losing him either way, and this is a feakin' heist.They want our future.Why didn't they just ask for Fields and Mosgov right away?Because they need panic and Dolan's confusion to pressure this move.DON'T DO IT!They've coveted Fields from DAY ONE.They set up us city slickers all the way.JUST SAY NO!AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.If Melo stays strong we win.IF he doesn't let him learn about the pleasuress of Newark.Let Melo squeeze Denver for us.He wants his money and NY, let him work for it or he can keep backpedaling.At the end of the day it would be nice to be able to look yourself in the face without being dogged to shyte.Man up J. and pretend you got some balls.I said it once and I'm gonna say it again.You let these MFrs roll over you, steal Fields and Mosgov, and I'm done.And I ain't alone.
As for the MSG/Newsday shill, you need to stop kissing Double D'ass.Hockey guys are supposed to be tough.
@Peaceman @Orange_and_Blue @Tman IT seems like Carmelo has done his part and played his role in the NBA Script by sending the message that he's not feeling NJ and would not go there on a rental basis. Denver brought in NJ to leverage NY. NJ realized that they were being pimped and was about to be HOzed. Instead of facing the embarassment of rejection as a billionaire, NJ may now be telling the Nugs to lose the g and suck on the salTy ones. Unfortunately, the Nets withdrawal will cause the MeloDrama to extend to the last minute. At the end of the day, it will be what IT will be.
Steady as IT goes!
@Peaceman @Tman I'm just saying if Dolan holds firm and draws the line in the sand of Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry and a 1st rounder. I'm cool. Toe the line and hold firm. Nuggets are trying to punk the Knicks. It's sickening if Dolan or Zeke's ego's gets the Knicks to surrender even more than they should. Gallo fills no needs if Melo comes. Mozzy and Fields do. It's as simple as that to me.
@Tman You guys know I'm money on the pen, I'll miss breaking themes with my intuition the most. But I said it all along in the open letter to Jim Dolan. I told to stand behind Walsh to back him. To go to bat as a big market owner and fight to weaken Denver's scare tactics of the New CBA. I told him to make a fair and reasonable offer but also to stand by the GM who got him to this point. I pleaded for him to fight it out at the owners meeting if the Nuggets ask for too much. Man may not be listening. I want to defend Zeke but if this deal happens I may have to reconsider his time w/ the Knicks. Flash my sell headline but it's not forward thinking That's what I hate about today's game. Chess is forward thinking but not flashy but it's a great game, its' there to be played on the court and in the negotiation rooms but a desperate Ike and Dolan may have missed the point of my open letter.
This weekend may signal my swan song from the blog . . .
@Tman You know what's good T'Man
I'm going to miss you and Post Up, Peaceman, Lives and the crew but this sucking the Nuggets sack b/c Dolan is desperate is really turning me off to the Knicks. There is a line that should not be crossed and the Knicks if they cross it will lose my fandom and I'll cancel my cable suscription. I'm sending my email to you good folks. Let's keep in touch and love the college game or something else. I'm getting sick of the Knicks knee jerk supiness!
Good stuff O&B... check this out " If Knicks can somehow keep Gallinari in this deal, as NBAtv says DEN prefers Mozgov/Fields instead, that would be amazing." Hahn being the company man can't come out and tell the truth, which means Gallo's worth is very low to all other coaches except Dantoni.
Yes amazing! LMAO~
@Peaceman Yeah, I suppose he's trying to make it sound like keeping Gallinari is a real steal? But check the logic, Fields is glue and is clutch, Mozzy is big and can run and bang and do some of what STAT does when he goes for a break. Gallo is niether. He's ok, good but he doesn't fill the needs the Knicks will have to cover if Melo comes to the Garden.
We'll keep in touch Peaceman. I may cease to be a fanatic. Who knows man who knows!
Great piece O&B. You have generated much traffic at KFB as a result of your passion and prolific prose.
Don't let IT slip away.
@Steady Yeah the story seems to change from minute to minute. I can only cover the more definitive aspects of the trade negotiations and offer my opinion. Man I'm tired though. I'll be glad it's over. The keys can then go to Aaron and Peaceman to glow and report the on ball action. I'll do some of that too but keeping up with the Melodrama is becoming a job in and of itself. Geesh! LOL!!!!!!
Therein lies the ills of OTP and Fantasy GM through blogs. Consider it for simple and sheer entertainment value but don't let it kill your passion and fandom KFB. When ITs all said and done, there will be very little said and very much to do.
@Steady Yes indeed Steady. The destabalizing ill effects of Covitis that afflicts franchises and fan bases alike. A civil war of internal porportions on both houses who coveted and dared to try the forbidden fruit!